Discussion:
NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
(too old to reply)
Donald Neal
2002-01-09 20:56:19 UTC
Permalink
NZNOG People,

I have been very surprised by the feedback I've received to the
suggestion of a face to face conference this year.

Potential attendees: 6
Offers to provide speaker(s): 3
Offer to help organise speakers: 1
Offer to help organise: 1
Offer of venue: 1

This is a very impressive level of willingness to do the things that
need doing. Not so flash on the audience front, though. Could anyone
else who'd consider attending please advise me in the not too distant
future, preferably including any preferences on date and/or location.

I haven't yet replied to any of those who've offered to help. I hope to
do so early next week.

- Donald Neal



--
Donald Neal
Special Operations
Network Delivery
Telecom New Zealand Ltd

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Tony McGregor
2002-01-09 22:35:49 UTC
Permalink
I'm very enthusiastic about the idea.

The Waikato University Network Research group (WAND) would certainly
like to be involved. I expect we would like to supply speakers on
network measurement research and some non-presenter audience as well.

We can host the conference if there is interested in that.

Tony
Post by Donald Neal
NZNOG People,
I have been very surprised by the feedback I've received to the
suggestion of a face to face conference this year.
Potential attendees: 6
Offers to provide speaker(s): 3
Offer to help organise speakers: 1
Offer to help organise: 1
Offer of venue: 1
This is a very impressive level of willingness to do the things that
need doing. Not so flash on the audience front, though. Could anyone
else who'd consider attending please advise me in the not too distant
future, preferably including any preferences on date and/or location.
I haven't yet replied to any of those who've offered to help. I hope to
do so early next week.
- Donald Neal
--
Donald Neal
Special Operations
Network Delivery
Telecom New Zealand Ltd
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you."
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Tony McGregor Mail: ***@cs.waikato.ac.nz
Department of Computer Science Phone: +64 7 838 4651
Waikato University Fax: +64 7 858 5095
Private Bag 3105 Home: +64 7 825 5040 mobile: (021)313004
Hamilton, New Zealand www: http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~tonym
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Allister Clarke
2002-01-09 22:43:02 UTC
Permalink
I work at the Waikato University as well.
Tony remembers me ... :-)
Currently I work in the teaching rooms here, and I do support of some
conferences.
If people are interested we could hold it in a teaching room(s) of the
required size.
Any thoughts?

Allister "Nearly CCNA" Clarke
AV Technician

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony McGregor [mailto:***@cs.waikato.ac.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 11:36 a.m.
To: Donald Neal
Cc: ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far



I'm very enthusiastic about the idea.

The Waikato University Network Research group (WAND) would certainly like to
be involved. I expect we would like to supply speakers on network
measurement research and some non-presenter audience as well.

We can host the conference if there is interested in that.

Tony
Post by Donald Neal
NZNOG People,
I have been very surprised by the feedback I've received to the
suggestion of a face to face conference this year.
Potential attendees: 6
Offers to provide speaker(s): 3
Offer to help organise speakers: 1
Offer to help organise: 1
Offer of venue: 1
This is a very impressive level of willingness to do the things that
need doing. Not so flash on the audience front, though. Could anyone
else who'd consider attending please advise me in the not too distant
future, preferably including any preferences on date and/or location.
I haven't yet replied to any of those who've offered to help. I hope
to do so early next week.
- Donald Neal
--
Donald Neal
Special Operations
Network Delivery
Telecom New Zealand Ltd
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
"This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you
are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me
immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this
communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you."
Post by Donald Neal
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Tony McGregor Mail: ***@cs.waikato.ac.nz
Department of Computer Science Phone: +64 7 838 4651
Waikato University Fax: +64 7 858 5095
Private Bag 3105 Home: +64 7 825 5040 mobile: (021)313004
Hamilton, New Zealand www: http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~tonym
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Mark Foster
2002-01-09 22:51:24 UTC
Permalink
FWIW, Id happily travel to Hamilton for this sort of event.. which means I
can theoretically let 3 other Aucklanders hitch with me...
If i needed to travel much further beyond Hamilton, it'd want to be a
Weekend event tho, where Hamilton I could probably get away with being down
there just for a day and/or overnight, depending on when im required back
in Auckland...

The advantage to Auckland - and Im pretty certain that if I asked, I could
get us a venue in the Manukau Institute of Technology IS Dept - Is the
reduced travel for a fair number of NZNOG'rs who work in/around Auckland -
and that ppl who want to fly in, esp ppl like Dean - Can fly direct to
Auckland.

Having said that if it is in Auckland, I live not far from the Airport too
if thats of any use to anyone... happy to play Taxi.

Mark.
Post by Allister Clarke
I work at the Waikato University as well.
Tony remembers me ... :-)
Currently I work in the teaching rooms here, and I do support of some
conferences.
If people are interested we could hold it in a teaching room(s) of the
required size.
Any thoughts?
Allister "Nearly CCNA" Clarke
AV Technician
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 11:36 a.m.
To: Donald Neal
Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
I'm very enthusiastic about the idea.
The Waikato University Network Research group (WAND) would certainly like to
be involved. I expect we would like to supply speakers on network
measurement research and some non-presenter audience as well.
We can host the conference if there is interested in that.
Tony
Post by Donald Neal
NZNOG People,
I have been very surprised by the feedback I've received to the
suggestion of a face to face conference this year.
Potential attendees: 6
Offers to provide speaker(s): 3
Offer to help organise speakers: 1
Offer to help organise: 1
Offer of venue: 1
This is a very impressive level of willingness to do the things that
need doing. Not so flash on the audience front, though. Could anyone
else who'd consider attending please advise me in the not too distant
future, preferably including any preferences on date and/or location.
I haven't yet replied to any of those who've offered to help. I hope
to do so early next week.
- Donald Neal
--
Donald Neal
Special Operations
Network Delivery
Telecom New Zealand Ltd
----------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
"This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you
are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me
immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this
communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you."
Post by Donald Neal
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Department of Computer Science Phone: +64 7 838 4651
Waikato University Fax: +64 7 858 5095
Private Bag 3105 Home: +64 7 825 5040 mobile: (021)313004
Hamilton, New Zealand www: http://www.cs.waikato.ac.nz/~tonym
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Allister Clarke
2002-01-09 23:02:22 UTC
Permalink
The advantage to Auckland - and Im pretty certain that if I asked, I could
get us a venue in the Manukau Institute of Technology IS Dept - Is the
reduced travel for a fair number of NZNOG'rs who work in/around Auckland -
and that ppl who want to fly in, esp ppl like Dean - Can fly direct to
Auckland.

* What is equipment like at the ManukauIT IS Dept?
* Is VC'ing of interest to anyone on this list?
* It can be a bit expensive though ... :-)
* Anyone like the Polycom units?

Allister.
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Mark Foster
2002-01-09 23:24:43 UTC
Permalink
The MIT IS/IT dept's are both pretty Top Notch, I worked with their IS Dept
while studying there for 18 months (thats another saga).

-(start ramble)-
Lots of rooms, a couple of significant lecture theatres with full AV
equipment, projectors, reasonably late model PC's, the network is
accessible via either a WinME/2k Desktop (with things like Office and stuff
installed (powerpoint)) or via Citrix Thin Client...

In the main IS building there is an oversized lecture theatre easily able
to accomodate more than 100 people, tier'd arrangement, whiteboards, full
AV setup for Videos, Computer Projection or OHP, with PA etc..

Theres two or three smaller theatres of the same type suitable for about 60
people each, and then of course theres the labs (about 9 of them
specifically IS dept) with 20 PCs each, and classrooms (suitable for 20 -25
people in each class, seated and desked). Each classroom has an OHP (or
access to one) and a whiteboard (typical tertiary class styles) and theres
also mobile projection equipment...

The buildings are also only about 5-6 years old, fairly recent stuff and in
good condition.

My login for their network has expired (I was a student there untill end of
last year) but Im still in contact with senior staff in the IS
department... given my exposure to other facilities of this type I think
the IS dept at MIT is pretty well set up overall - Im sort of spasmodically
studying there now, trying to decide if pursuing my Diploma is more useful
than gaining on-the-fly work experience as I am at the moment...

What else may be of interest.
Literally 2 mins off the Motorway. Lots of parking, and its free. Active
security patrols around the building. Handy to fast food of various sorts,
cafeteria within 50m of the building, and of course every machine on the
LAN has access to the internet via a proxy...

-(end ramble)-

So yeah, Im not sure exactly what kind of facilities we want/need/expect -
But Donald you can add me to the list of 'general help' and if resources
such as the above are suitable, I can make approaches as/when
appropriate. Just need a vague idea as to the date. Given enough advance
notice I dont see it being too big a deal.. :)

Mark.
Post by Mark Foster
The advantage to Auckland - and Im pretty certain that if I asked, I could
get us a venue in the Manukau Institute of Technology IS Dept - Is the
reduced travel for a fair number of NZNOG'rs who work in/around Auckland -
and that ppl who want to fly in, esp ppl like Dean - Can fly direct to
Auckland.
* What is equipment like at the ManukauIT IS Dept?
* Is VC'ing of interest to anyone on this list?
* It can be a bit expensive though ... :-)
* Anyone like the Polycom units?
Allister.
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Allister Clarke
2002-01-09 23:31:15 UTC
Permalink
But the MIT is still Auckland ... ;-)
Been to uni here at Waikato Mark?
MIT sounds very similar to Waikato.
6 of one half a dozen of the other.

Allister.
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Mark Foster
2002-01-09 23:42:42 UTC
Permalink
Yes, it is.
Without adding yet more non useful ramble to nznog, the point is simply -
Do we want to have it in Auckland, or not? :)
I think people need to indicate to Donald that theyd be interested in
attending, and maybe we need to work out where various people are from, and
go with either a majority, or a central location...

As I said, I think MIT is an example of a good place to host this sort of
thing. Im sure most of the major tertiary institutes like waikato.ac.nz,
auckland.ac.nz, aut.ac.nz etc all have fairly similar sorts of equipment -
so yes, its very much a case of 'theyre all thes same...'

Whats the demographic profile of nznog? :)
Post by Allister Clarke
But the MIT is still Auckland ... ;-)
Been to uni here at Waikato Mark?
MIT sounds very similar to Waikato.
6 of one half a dozen of the other.
Allister.
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Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
2002-01-10 00:07:11 UTC
Permalink
and that ppl who want to fly in, esp ppl like Dean - Can fly
direct to
Auckland.

Dean could fly Freedom Air to Hamilton of course. :-)

Regards
Kefyn JUDSON
Multiservice Network Architect
ERICSSON New Zealand
* Phone: +64 9 3555 461
* Mobile: +61 21 535 331
* E-mail: ***@ericsson.co.nz
* SMS: ***@vodafone.net.nz
Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
2002-01-10 00:08:53 UTC
Permalink
Wouldn't this be a great Multicast opportunity?

Regards
Kefyn JUDSON
Multiservice Network Architect
ERICSSON New Zealand
* Phone: +64 9 3555 461
* Mobile: +61 21 535 331
* E-mail: ***@ericsson.co.nz
* SMS: ***@vodafone.net.nz


-----Original Message-----
From: Allister Clarke [mailto:***@waikato.ac.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 12:02 PM
To: 'Mark Foster'; 'Tony McGregor'; Donald Neal
Cc: ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far

The advantage to Auckland - and Im pretty certain that if I
asked, I could
get us a venue in the Manukau Institute of Technology IS
Dept - Is the
reduced travel for a fair number of NZNOG'rs who work
in/around Auckland -
and that ppl who want to fly in, esp ppl like Dean - Can fly
direct to
Auckland.

* What is equipment like at the ManukauIT IS Dept?
* Is VC'ing of interest to anyone on this list?
* It can be a bit expensive though ... :-)
* Anyone like the Polycom units?

Allister.
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***@list.waikato.ac.nz
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Craig Whitmore
2002-01-10 00:16:11 UTC
Permalink
RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So FarYes. it would.. IHUG, Attica + Orcon have it connected up at the moment (at APE and then connected to a Peer Overseas), maybe other people want to look up to it so they can look at it/use it as well.

I was watching some content on it last night, and some of it is interesting.(like alot of NASA Stuff). (well to geeks at least)

Thanks
Craig

----- Original Message -----
From: Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
To: 'Allister Clarke' ; 'Mark Foster' ; 'Tony McGregor' ; Donald Neal
Cc: ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 1:08 PM
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far


Wouldn't this be a great Multicast opportunity?
Tony McGregor
2002-01-10 00:16:34 UTC
Permalink
Auckland is fine for me.

But, just for the record, the offer to host an event at Waikato was
(intended to be) a bit more than offering a location. Events of this
type take quite a bit of organisation and I was (with some trepidation,
I've done it before) offering to look after that.


Tony


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Allister Clarke
2002-01-10 00:18:50 UTC
Permalink
Very much an eye pleasing option :-)
Who here has Cisco quals?

Allister.

-----Original Message-----
From: Kefyn Judson (ENZ) [mailto:***@ericsson.co.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 1:07 p.m.
To: ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far



and that ppl who want to fly in, esp ppl like Dean - Can fly direct
to
Auckland.

Dean could fly Freedom Air to Hamilton of course. :-)

Regards
Kefyn JUDSON
Multiservice Network Architect
ERICSSON New Zealand
* Phone: +64 9 3555 461
* Mobile: +61 21 535 331
* E-mail: ***@ericsson.co.nz
* SMS: ***@vodafone.net.nz
Dean Pemberton
2002-01-10 00:48:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allister Clarke
Who here has Cisco quals?
Why would I want those?

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Allister Clarke
2002-01-10 00:26:15 UTC
Permalink
The CS department and/or Tony would do it very well.
Lets arrange it before the beginning of March.
Some rooms in G-block would do well for a small group.
I guess a small group would be likely?

Allister

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony McGregor [mailto:***@cs.waikato.ac.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 1:17 p.m.
To: Donald Neal
Cc: ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far




Auckland is fine for me.

But, just for the record, the offer to host an event at Waikato was
(intended to be) a bit more than offering a location. Events of this type
take quite a bit of organisation and I was (with some trepidation, I've done
it before) offering to look after that.


Tony


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Allister Clarke
2002-01-10 00:50:02 UTC
Permalink
The books are good bedtime reading;-)
Also it can be cool to more letters after your name at parties :-)

Allister.
-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Pemberton [mailto:***@flatnet.gen.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 1:48 p.m.
To: Allister Clarke
Cc: 'Kefyn Judson (ENZ)'; '***@list.waikato.ac.nz'
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
Post by Allister Clarke
Who here has Cisco quals?
Why would I want those?
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J S Russell
2002-01-10 01:12:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allister Clarke
The books are good bedtime reading;-)
Also it can be cool to more letters after your name at parties :-)
It's a qualification made up by a commercial entity.

I own some shares, and hold some positions in, a couple of commerical
entities.

I hereby create, and award myself, the Lifetime Electrical Engineering
Targetted Director of Operations and Organisational Domains qualification.

JSR (LEETDOOD)

P.S. Anyone who wants to sit the exam for this, will soon be able to do so
online via interactive web classes and exams in the form of a multi-choice
test, after paying the exam fee (paypal accepted).
http://www.jsr.com/leetdood/
--
John S Russell | Smile
Operations Manager | Nod
Attica/Callplus NZ | Build it.

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Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
2002-01-10 01:33:55 UTC
Permalink
I was waiting for that Dean.

Oh, and ditto. :-)

Regards
Kefyn JUDSON
Multiservice Network Architect
ERICSSON New Zealand
* Phone: +64 9 3555 461
* Mobile: +61 21 535 331
* E-mail: ***@ericsson.co.nz
* SMS: ***@vodafone.net.nz


-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Pemberton [mailto:***@flatnet.gen.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 1:48 PM
To: Allister Clarke
Cc: 'Kefyn Judson (ENZ)'; '***@list.waikato.ac.nz'
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
Post by Allister Clarke
Who here has Cisco quals?
Why would I want those?
Andy Linton
2002-01-10 01:36:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by J S Russell
Post by Allister Clarke
The books are good bedtime reading;-)
Also it can be cool to more letters after your name at parties :-)
It's a qualification made up by a commercial entity.
If you assert that you "Can Configure Internet Equipment", why
shouldn't you call yourself:

Fred Bloggs, CCIE


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Allister Clarke
2002-01-10 01:56:44 UTC
Permalink
You need a number beside that ... :-)
I think we may have 40 CCIE's in NZ.
Very hard to get this cert ... It is rumoured that 80% fail the first time.
Also you have to have a holiday in Australia and sit the tests at the same
time.
What a shame ;-)

Allister.

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Linton [mailto:***@lionra.net.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 2:37 p.m.
To: J S Russell
Cc: Allister Clarke; '***@list.waikato.ac.nz'
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
Post by J S Russell
Post by Allister Clarke
The books are good bedtime reading;-)
Also it can be cool to more letters after your name at parties :-)
It's a qualification made up by a commercial entity.
If you assert that you "Can Configure Internet Equipment", why
shouldn't you call yourself:

Fred Bloggs, CCIE

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Joe Abley
2002-01-10 03:15:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Allister Clarke
You need a number beside that ... :-)
I think we may have 40 CCIE's in NZ.
Very hard to get this cert ... It is rumoured that 80% fail the first time.
I suspect that's more a reflection of plummeting clue density
than anything else.

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J S Russell
2002-01-10 02:29:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by J S Russell
http://www.jsr.com/leetdood/
jsr:/var/log/caudium-1.1/localhost# grep leetdood Log | wc -l
41

Seriously, you people are terrible. :)

JSR
--
John S Russell | Smile
Operations Manager | Nod
Attica/Callplus NZ | Build it.

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Peter Mott
2002-01-10 02:41:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dean Pemberton
Post by Allister Clarke
Who here has Cisco quals?
Why would I want those?
They can be useful for small companies like us. We then know who to avoid
:-)

Peter Mott
Chief Enthusiast
2DAY INTERNET LIMITED

It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney
-/-

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Andreas Girardet
2002-01-10 02:41:38 UTC
Permalink
As Internet people, can't we organize a conference and broadcast it to those who can't make it? Then it would not matter too much where we actually do it. Just fast internet would be needed.

That would be a first. And interactivity would not be hard to do.


I am sure we all could have a true Network conference ......


Andreas


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Craig Whitmore
2002-01-10 02:46:13 UTC
Permalink
RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So FarUmm.. I'm pretty sure I can offer Multicast on UNL if anyone wants it..What the UNL switches think about it I have no idea..

Thanks
Craig

----- Original Message -----
From: Nathan Ward
To: 'Craig Whitmore' ; 'Kefyn Judson (ENZ)'
Cc: ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 3:29 PM
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far


Whoa, IHUG have multicast?

I'm a UNL customer IHUG guys, routed this way?



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@list.waikato.ac.nz [mailto:owner-***@list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Craig Whitmore
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 1:16 PM
To: Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
Cc: ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far



Yes. it would.. IHUG, Attica + Orcon have it connected up at the moment (at APE and then connected to a Peer Overseas), maybe other people want to look up to it so they can look at it/use it as well.



I was watching some content on it last night, and some of it is interesting.(like alot of NASA Stuff). (well to geeks at least)



Thanks
Craig



----- Original Message -----

From: Kefyn Judson (ENZ)

To: 'Allister Clarke' ; 'Mark Foster' ; 'Tony McGregor' ; Donald Neal

Cc: ***@list.waikato.ac.nz

Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 1:08 PM

Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far



Wouldn't this be a great Multicast opportunity?
Juha Saarinen
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Girardet
Just fast internet would be needed.
Mec, c'est Nouvelle Zealand... if I were to join a video conference with
my Jetstream connection, I'd have to take out a second mortgage.
--
Juha
Take off every sig!

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Craig Whitmore
2002-01-10 02:55:08 UTC
Permalink
Its why Telecom have to allow Multicast over their DSL Network.. and then
everyone in NZ would be Happy

Thanks
Craig Whitmore
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juha Saarinen" <***@saarinen.org>
To: "Andreas Girardet" <***@team.xtra.co.nz>
Cc: <***@list.waikato.ac.nz>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 3:47 PM
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
Post by Juha Saarinen
Post by Andreas Girardet
Just fast internet would be needed.
Mec, c'est Nouvelle Zealand... if I were to join a video conference with
my Jetstream connection, I'd have to take out a second mortgage.
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Andreas Girardet
2002-01-10 03:09:13 UTC
Permalink
just tunnel it

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@list.waikato.ac.nz
[mailto:owner-***@list.waikato.ac.nz]On Behalf Of Craig Whitmore
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 3:55 p.m.
To: Juha Saarinen; Andreas Girardet
Cc: ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far


Its why Telecom have to allow Multicast over their DSL Network.. and then
everyone in NZ would be Happy

Thanks
Craig Whitmore
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juha Saarinen" <***@saarinen.org>
To: "Andreas Girardet" <***@team.xtra.co.nz>
Cc: <***@list.waikato.ac.nz>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 3:47 PM
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
Post by Juha Saarinen
Post by Andreas Girardet
Just fast internet would be needed.
Mec, c'est Nouvelle Zealand... if I were to join a video conference with
my Jetstream connection, I'd have to take out a second mortgage.
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Craig Whitmore
2002-01-10 03:12:33 UTC
Permalink
I have in the past, but it "defeats" the purpose of Multicast.

BTW: Hi Andreas..

Thanks
Craig Whitmore
Orcon Internet
http://www.orcon.net.nz

----- Original Message -----
Post by Andreas Girardet
just tunnel it
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Andy Linton
2002-01-10 03:40:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andreas Girardet
As Internet people, can't we organize a conference and broadcast it to
those who can't make it? Then it would not matter too much where we
actually do it. Just fast internet would be needed.
That would be a first. And interactivity would not be hard to do.
I am sure we all could have a true Network conference ......
Surely a true network conference involves the cashing in of the large
numbers of beer credits. How often have network people said, thanks, I owe
you a beer...

I still don't believe that networks are fast enough or the protocols well
enough developed to allow those exchanges to take place.



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Dean Pemberton
2002-01-10 03:46:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Linton
Surely a true network conference involves the cashing in of the large
numbers of beer credits. How often have network people said, thanks, I owe
you a beer...
Thats a good call. If I owe people beer then make sure I have not
forgotten about it =).

I must be getting even though. After the Auckland xmas event.

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Joe Abley
2002-01-10 03:47:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Linton
Post by Andreas Girardet
As Internet people, can't we organize a conference and broadcast it to
those who can't make it? Then it would not matter too much where we
actually do it. Just fast internet would be needed.
That would be a first. And interactivity would not be hard to do.
I am sure we all could have a true Network conference ......
Surely a true network conference involves the cashing in of the large
numbers of beer credits. How often have network people said, thanks, I owe
you a beer...
I still don't believe that networks are fast enough or the protocols well
enough developed to allow those exchanges to take place.
I have heard it said of the NANOG meetings that the presentations
are really incidental to the real reason for attending, and that
the real work at NANOG gets done in the lobby and in the bar.

This is not to belittle the material, which is frequently very
interesting and well-presented; however, there are other reasons
to go to a *NOG conference than just to watch people reading
from powerpoint slides. Those aspects are better served in a
conference involving an overnight stay, I think.


Joe
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Juha Saarinen
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Linton
I still don't believe that networks are fast enough or the protocols
well enough developed to allow those exchanges to take place.
Beer over IP (BoIP)? Has the RFC been written yet?
--
Juha
Take off every sig!

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Dean Pemberton
2002-01-10 04:03:29 UTC
Permalink
I wrote that RFC back in 98. I'll dig it out
Post by Juha Saarinen
Post by Andy Linton
I still don't believe that networks are fast enough or the protocols
well enough developed to allow those exchanges to take place.
Beer over IP (BoIP)? Has the RFC been written yet?
--
Juha
Take off every sig!
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Dean Pemberton
2002-01-10 04:06:48 UTC
Permalink
Done

http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/1999/03/msg00035.html
Post by Dean Pemberton
I wrote that RFC back in 98. I'll dig it out
Post by Juha Saarinen
Post by Andy Linton
I still don't believe that networks are fast enough or the protocols
well enough developed to allow those exchanges to take place.
Beer over IP (BoIP)? Has the RFC been written yet?
--
Juha
Take off every sig!
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J S Russell
2002-01-10 03:43:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Linton
I still don't believe that networks are fast enough or the protocols well
enough developed to allow those exchanges to take place.
BoIP, it's the Big New Thing.

JSR
--
John S Russell | Smile
Operations Manager | Nod
Attica/Callplus NZ | Build it.

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Allister Clarke
2002-01-10 03:46:09 UTC
Permalink
What about CPIP?(Carries Pigeon IP)

Allister.
-----Original Message-----
From: J S Russell [mailto:***@jsr.com]
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 4:44 p.m.
To: Andy Linton
Cc: Andreas Girardet; ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
Post by Andy Linton
I still don't believe that networks are fast enough or the protocols
well enough developed to allow those exchanges to take place.
BoIP, it's the Big New Thing.

JSR
--
John S Russell | Smile
Operations Manager | Nod
Attica/Callplus NZ | Build it.

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Nathan Ward
2002-01-10 03:41:43 UTC
Permalink
Hey, lets write it. Theres a Irfc for IP over Carrier Pigeon.
Scary thing is, some Norwegian guys actually used this proof of concept.

Links:
http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1149.txt
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1003-200-5825807.html


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@list.waikato.ac.nz
[mailto:owner-***@list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of J S Russell
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 4:44 PM
To: Andy Linton
Cc: Andreas Girardet; ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
Post by Andy Linton
I still don't believe that networks are fast enough or the protocols
well
Post by Andy Linton
enough developed to allow those exchanges to take place.
BoIP, it's the Big New Thing.

JSR
--
John S Russell | Smile
Operations Manager | Nod
Attica/Callplus NZ | Build it.

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Juha Saarinen
1970-01-01 00:00:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dean Pemberton
Done
http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/1999/03/msg00035.html
I am suitably impressed now.
--
Juha
Take off every sig!

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Andy Linton
2002-01-10 05:39:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Dean Pemberton
Done
http://list.waikato.ac.nz/archives/nznog/1999/03/msg00035.html
This is good stuff but it seems to me that the excellent work done in
RFC2324 - Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol (HTCPCP/1.0) could be
modified for beer use. Certainly work on a generic Hyper Text Beverage
Control Protocol seems warranted possibly using the ideas from both
documents.

There's also work being done on ATP (Alcohol Transfer Protocol) - see
http://paris.mongueurs.net/meetings/2001/0207.html


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Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
2002-01-10 07:11:04 UTC
Permalink
The alternative may be to deliver them over the "IP over CourierPost" RFC
that some of us have been discussing (Have any of you guys taken this RFC
further?).

Regards
Kefyn JUDSON
Multiservice Network Architect
ERICSSON New Zealand
* Phone: +64 9 3555 461
* Mobile: +61 21 535 331
* E-mail: ***@ericsson.co.nz
* SMS: ***@vodafone.net.nz


-----Original Message-----
From: Juha Saarinen [mailto:***@saarinen.org]
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 4:43 PM
To: Andy Linton
Cc: Andreas Girardet; ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
Post by Andy Linton
I still don't believe that networks are fast enough or
the protocols
Post by Andy Linton
well enough developed to allow those exchanges to take
place.

Beer over IP (BoIP)? Has the RFC been written yet?

--
Juha
Take off every sig!

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Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
2002-01-10 07:16:43 UTC
Permalink
Agree.

A lot of good came out of the Christmas parties. That is above and beyond
the spiff and beer.

How about another casual gathering at the pub in Aotea square to kick off
the year?

Regards
Kefyn JUDSON
Multiservice Network Architect
ERICSSON New Zealand
* Phone: +64 9 3555 461
* Mobile: +61 21 535 331
* E-mail: ***@ericsson.co.nz
* SMS: ***@vodafone.net.nz


-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Abley [mailto:***@automagic.org]
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 4:48 PM
To: Andy Linton
Cc: Andreas Girardet; ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
Post by Andy Linton
Post by Andreas Girardet
As Internet people, can't we organize a conference and
broadcast it to
Post by Andy Linton
Post by Andreas Girardet
those who can't make it? Then it would not matter too
much where we
Post by Andy Linton
Post by Andreas Girardet
actually do it. Just fast internet would be needed.
That would be a first. And interactivity would not be
hard to do.
Post by Andy Linton
Post by Andreas Girardet
I am sure we all could have a true Network conference
......
Post by Andy Linton
Surely a true network conference involves the cashing in
of the large
Post by Andy Linton
numbers of beer credits. How often have network people
said, thanks, I owe
Post by Andy Linton
you a beer...
I still don't believe that networks are fast enough or the
protocols well
Post by Andy Linton
enough developed to allow those exchanges to take place.
I have heard it said of the NANOG meetings that the
presentations
are really incidental to the real reason for attending, and
that
the real work at NANOG gets done in the lobby and in the
bar.

This is not to belittle the material, which is frequently
very
interesting and well-presented; however, there are other
reasons
to go to a *NOG conference than just to watch people reading
from powerpoint slides. Those aspects are better served in a
conference involving an overnight stay, I think.


Joe
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Malcolm Lockyer
2002-01-10 07:37:52 UTC
Permalink
Or maybe BoIP through a PTPC (point-to-point courrier) VPN where each beer
data gram would use the old fassioned BPAS algarithim (brown paper and
string) which would safely encrpt the beer datagram inside making the BoIP
secure from the rest of the public courier network.


Sorry, just talking nonsense again...

Malcolm
Post by Craig Whitmore
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
The alternative may be to deliver them over the "IP over CourierPost" RFC
that some of us have been discussing (Have any of you guys taken this RFC
further?).
Regards
Kefyn JUDSON
Multiservice Network Architect
ERICSSON New Zealand
* Phone: +64 9 3555 461
* Mobile: +61 21 535 331
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 4:43 PM
To: Andy Linton
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
--snip--


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.

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Darryl Hamilton
2002-01-10 07:56:27 UTC
Permalink
Wouldn't you need some kind of "encryption" method as described below to
counter this new law about alcohol in a public place?

:)
Post by Malcolm Lockyer
Or maybe BoIP through a PTPC (point-to-point courrier) VPN where each beer
data gram would use the old fassioned BPAS algarithim (brown paper and
string) which would safely encrpt the beer datagram inside making the BoIP
secure from the rest of the public courier network.
Sorry, just talking nonsense again...
Malcolm
Post by Craig Whitmore
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
The alternative may be to deliver them over the "IP over CourierPost" RFC
that some of us have been discussing (Have any of you guys taken this RFC
further?).
Regards
Kefyn JUDSON
Multiservice Network Architect
ERICSSON New Zealand
* Phone: +64 9 3555 461
* Mobile: +61 21 535 331
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 4:43 PM
To: Andy Linton
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
--snip--
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
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Craig Whitmore
2002-01-10 08:04:40 UTC
Permalink
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darryl Hamilton" <***@addict.net.nz>
To: <***@list.waikato.ac.nz>
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 8:56 PM
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
Post by Darryl Hamilton
Wouldn't you need some kind of "encryption" method as described below to
counter this new law about alcohol in a public place?
:)
You can encrypt the RUM packets with COKE packets. The only problem is the
packets can be sniffed and the contents decryted quite easily.

Thanks
Craig Whitmore
Orcon Internet


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Dean Pemberton
2002-01-10 09:53:51 UTC
Permalink
rfc5150 makes mention of a BeerSec Protocol.

-------%<---cut here------

Security Considerations

Security is a consideration with transporting Beer to areas that have
strict Beer transmission policies. Data encryption techniques should be
employed in these circumstances. A certain ammount of success has been
reported with BeerSec encryption. BeerSec encryption requires the
application of an additional header onto the Beer datagram. Example
headers are shown below.

"This is not a beer!"
"Pepsi"
"Roll-on Deoderant"
"Look over there - Elvis!"


---------%<-----cuthere------
Post by Darryl Hamilton
Wouldn't you need some kind of "encryption" method as described below to
counter this new law about alcohol in a public place?
:)
Post by Malcolm Lockyer
Or maybe BoIP through a PTPC (point-to-point courrier) VPN where each beer
data gram would use the old fassioned BPAS algarithim (brown paper and
string) which would safely encrpt the beer datagram inside making the BoIP
secure from the rest of the public courier network.
Sorry, just talking nonsense again...
Malcolm
Post by Craig Whitmore
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
The alternative may be to deliver them over the "IP over CourierPost" RFC
that some of us have been discussing (Have any of you guys taken this RFC
further?).
Regards
Kefyn JUDSON
Multiservice Network Architect
ERICSSON New Zealand
* Phone: +64 9 3555 461
* Mobile: +61 21 535 331
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 4:43 PM
To: Andy Linton
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
--snip--
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
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Lin Nah
2002-01-10 09:31:14 UTC
Permalink
1 Most conferences are difficult to organise because it entails lining up
attendees and speakers to all be at the same place and time.

2 once venue and programme is set, the other thing would be to justify to
management that you are worthy to attend such conferences and if you are
lucky get the fee, accomodation and travel paid.

3 There used to be a technical and a management part running in parallel
at the Uniforum conference with. In the last few ones there has been no
such distinction. I wonder if it is worth while asking if we (nznog) can
organise the technical bit. This leaves the organisation of the conference
to them and the work is only in organising the presenters etc.
(just a suggestion to reduce the organisation workload)

4 what content do you need to see in the programme before you think it is
worth your time attending? Perhaps it might be worthwhile looking at the
presentation topics of the NANOG meeting or APRICOT and have each of you
list what it is you would have attended. I remember one of the Uniforum
sessions in Rotorua where someone expected a lot of nznog types to attend
his session and not many turned up and so he had to change his talk to
a more general one on IP Net (or something like that).


5. Some of you feel that a lot more gets done at the pub. If it is the
case, let's not have a conference. Organise regular drinkies or dinners
(eg once every 3 or 6 months) and have one or two speakers give a
presentation before the drinkies start. Perhaps even say the presenters
have to buy a round of drinks.

6. I also feel that some of you won't be too happy sitting listening to
presentations all day and perhaps it would be more realistic to have more
sessions with hands on things to do at some computer/router/machine and
fewer presentations.



just my 2c worth
Lin

The



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Martin D Kealey
2002-01-10 13:27:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lin Nah
There used to be a technical and a management part running in parallel
at the Uniforum conference with. In the last few ones there has been no
such distinction. I wonder if it is worth while asking if we (nznog) can
organise the technical bit. This leaves the organisation of the
conference to them and the work is only in organising the presenters
etc. (just a suggestion to reduce the organisation workload)
Strangely enough, I was just talking to Donald Neal about doing exactly
this. How would people be set for the June/July study break?

-Martin
--
"War against Terror" is an oxymoron


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Roger De Salis
2002-01-10 21:22:20 UTC
Permalink
(Please read the whole of this BEFORE hitting reply).

As I organised, (with enormous amounts of help from the rest
of the organisation) two Uniforum conferences, which were both
profitable, I hope I can add something here.

I had to give Uniforum up, as it was not "net-centric" enough.

But I think there is room for a technical conference in NZ
encompassing Internet/Real Operating Systems/Management/Networks.

The dynamics of a conference are.

1/ Organisation is pretty much a 12 month cycle (not to say
you can't do a smaller one in less time.)

2/ Guest overseas/celebrity speakers (from 1-3) usually
want business-class airfare plus free accomodation.

3/ Organisors, who usually work for nothing, like have their
accomodation paid. (But this need not be the case)

This collectively comes up to $5-15K, according to how it
unfolds. By the time you add the entertainment, meals etc
the bill can get up to $35-50K. (The last Uniforum conference
I ran had a running cost of a shade under $80K.

if 100 contributors, at 40K total cost = $400 conference
fees each. By taking a more modest approach, and ensuring
that all organisors pay their way as well, you can cut
the conference fee to $295, and you are also up for
the 2-3 nights hotel, at a preferentail rate of $80-120.
Do not overlook the bar bill.

I believe most companies would stump up for this.
There are severe limitations in the number of establishments
that can deal with 50-150 people, and they typically want
12 month notice of bookings.

I'm sure Cisco, being the gorilla of the Internet industry
would be keen to participate, by providing an overseas
speaker, and other companies would no doubt contribute in
like fashion. The principle reason for finding a sponsor
is to stump up the hotel deposit.

I think the technical conference in NZ is a worthy one, but
I would put more emphasis on getting managers of Telco's
along, simply as it is an opportunity for them to understand
a little more of the technical side, and perhaps it is also
an opportunity for the techo's to understand the management
drivers.

/R
Post by Martin D Kealey
Post by Lin Nah
There used to be a technical and a management part running in parallel
at the Uniforum conference with. In the last few ones there has been no
such distinction. I wonder if it is worth while asking if we (nznog) can
organise the technical bit. This leaves the organisation of the
conference to them and the work is only in organising the presenters
etc. (just a suggestion to reduce the organisation workload)
Strangely enough, I was just talking to Donald Neal about doing exactly
this. How would people be set for the June/July study break?
-Martin
--
"War against Terror" is an oxymoron
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--
\_ Roger De Salis ***@cisco.com
</' Cisco Systems NZ Ltd +64 25 481 452
/) L8, ASB Tower, 2 Hunter St +64 4 496 9003
(/ Wellington, New Zealand ***@desalis.gen.nz
`
In October 2001, the 5th most important product line by value
for Cisco is - the telephone. Cisco 79x0 IP telephones.
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Dean Pemberton
2002-01-10 21:59:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger De Salis
1/ Organisation is pretty much a 12 month cycle (not to say
you can't do a smaller one in less time.)
Damn - my attention span has been clocked at under 10.7 seconds.

Seriously though. I don't doubt for a minute that this is a long term
job, and as such needs the right sort of person to organise it.
Post by Roger De Salis
2/ Guest overseas/celebrity speakers (from 1-3) usually
want business-class airfare plus free accomodation.
Greedy bastards.
S/t I think this could be relaxed. None of the companies they work for
will be flying them business class at the moment so why should we.
Post by Roger De Salis
3/ Organisors, who usually work for nothing, like have their
accomodation paid. (But this need not be the case)
One Maui Camper van comming up
S/t If you like the idea enough to volenteer to organise it, then you
were probably going to come anyway. So then you would have been paying
for your accomodation anyway. So no one should mind paying.
QED
Post by Roger De Salis
I believe most companies would stump up for this.
There are severe limitations in the number of establishments
that can deal with 50-150 people, and they typically want
12 month notice of bookings.
Yep - this I think will be an issue. We might want to look into this as
a phase 1. it might effect some of the scaling decisions that Donald is
talking about (single vs multiday, independant vs schlepping off
uniforum)
Post by Roger De Salis
I'm sure Cisco, being the gorilla of the Internet industry
would be keen to participate, by providing an overseas
speaker, and other companies would no doubt contribute in
like fashion. The principle reason for finding a sponsor
is to stump up the hotel deposit.
One tShirt with a slow knuckle-dragging, hairy, drooling gorilla named
Cisco comming up =)

S/t I don't think Speakers will be a huge problem. I think that doing
them for cheap, and getting companies to just fork out disposable cash
might be a bit harder. But who knows.
Post by Roger De Salis
I think the technical conference in NZ is a worthy one, but
I would put more emphasis on getting managers of Telco's
along, simply as it is an opportunity for them to understand
a little more of the technical side, and perhaps it is also
an opportunity for the techo's to understand the management
drivers.
<t-i-c>
Telco's are some of the most technical and intelligent people that I
know. They have recently been shown to make EXCELLENT networking
decisions. I think they would be a great asset to any conference
audience.
</t-i-c>



Having said all this I guess the thing that I'm worried about the most
is that we start too big and it tanks. We are then left with the "Nah,
we tried that once but it didn't work"


All good points man. Esp the ones about how expensive and time
consuming the organising is.


Dean
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Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
2002-01-10 20:57:43 UTC
Permalink
I think Lin's point five is a good one and not too difficult to organise.

Could have Auckland and Wellington sessions.

Regards
Kefyn JUDSON
Multiservice Network Architect
ERICSSON New Zealand
* Phone: +64 9 3555 461
* Mobile: +61 21 535 331
* E-mail: ***@ericsson.co.nz
* SMS: ***@vodafone.net.nz


-----Original Message-----
From: Lin Nah [mailto:***@darkmere.gen.nz]
Sent: Thursday, 10 January 2002 10:31 PM
To: Craig Whitmore
Cc: Darryl Hamilton; ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far


1 Most conferences are difficult to organise because it
entails lining up
attendees and speakers to all be at the same place and
time.

2 once venue and programme is set, the other thing would be
to justify to
management that you are worthy to attend such conferences
and if you are
lucky get the fee, accomodation and travel paid.

3 There used to be a technical and a management part
running in parallel
at the Uniforum conference with. In the last few ones there
has been no
such distinction. I wonder if it is worth while asking if we
(nznog) can
organise the technical bit. This leaves the organisation of
the conference
to them and the work is only in organising the presenters
etc.
(just a suggestion to reduce the organisation workload)

4 what content do you need to see in the programme before
you think it is
worth your time attending? Perhaps it might be worthwhile
looking at the
presentation topics of the NANOG meeting or APRICOT and have
each of you
list what it is you would have attended. I remember one of
the Uniforum
sessions in Rotorua where someone expected a lot of nznog
types to attend
his session and not many turned up and so he had to change
his talk to
a more general one on IP Net (or something like that).


5. Some of you feel that a lot more gets done at the pub.
If it is the
case, let's not have a conference. Organise regular
drinkies or dinners
(eg once every 3 or 6 months) and have one or two speakers
give a
presentation before the drinkies start. Perhaps even say
the presenters
have to buy a round of drinks.

6. I also feel that some of you won't be too happy sitting
listening to
presentations all day and perhaps it would be more realistic
to have more
sessions with hands on things to do at some
computer/router/machine and
fewer presentations.



just my 2c worth
Lin

The



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Peter Mott
2002-01-10 21:37:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger De Salis
Do not overlook the bar bill.
If particpants can agree to a large 2day.com sign above the bar, we may well
be able to spring for much of the liquid refreshments. Anybody know the
formula for determining the number and cost of drinks an average NZNOGER can
consume?

People with an association with domainz will be required to pay. They would
only attempt to drink us broke :-)

Peter Mott
Chief Enthusiast
2DAY INTERNET LIMITED

It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney
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Simon Lyall
2002-01-10 22:02:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Roger De Salis
I think the technical conference in NZ is a worthy one, but
I would put more emphasis on getting managers of Telco's
along, simply as it is an opportunity for them to understand
a little more of the technical side, and perhaps it is also
an opportunity for the techo's to understand the management
drivers.
I'm not sure how likely this is, the recent Internetnz thing had little
participation from Industry. There was a Clear guy there and someone from
Telecom came in for a few sessions. However there was (AFAIK) no-one from
Telstra or ihug (I was there but not representing ihug (at least when I
could avoid it) ) or most other ISPs.

Some one will have more exact number but there were only about 50 people
total prepared to pay just $100 for a day day event (which was subsidised
by internetnz).

I'm just wondering if there is the demand there for events on a larger
scale, will mosts people here's companys pay for them to attend a
conference over a day or two, even the time off and registration fee if
it's in the same town you are in?
--
Simon Lyall. | Newsmaster | Work: ***@ihug.co.nz
Senior Network/System Admin | Postmaster | Home: ***@darkmere.gen.nz
ihug, Auckland, NZ | Asst Doorman | Web: http://www.darkmere.gen.nz

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Peter Mott
2002-01-10 22:21:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Simon Lyall
I'm just wondering if there is the demand there for events on a larger
scale
I don't think its scale thats the problem. The problem is relevance.

Content needs to be rich, targeted at individuals who are eager to come
along. Cost needs to be something the average NZNOGer can spring for
without having to go hungry. People should not have to ask their employer
to pay for anything, nor should they need lots of time off.

We already know people subscribed turn up to get free tee shirts and beers.
So the event needs plenty of both.

But what else, very specifically do people here want to do at an event where
there are lots of us?

I think a router smashing competition would be a good drawcard :-)

Peter Mott
Chief Enthusiast
2DAY INTERNET LIMITED

It's kind of fun to do the impossible - Walt Disney
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Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
2002-01-10 23:19:11 UTC
Permalink
Dean I'd definitely be a starter for one of those tShirts. Could be that
classical evolutionary picture from gorilla to Neanderthal to 21 century
human! :-)

Enough of that!

What is the point of us getting together? I'm not knocking it here, but if
we can identify our reasons for getting together we should be able to
identify which setup would work for us.

Is it for networking?
For chewing over a specific issue?
For hands on workshopping something (perhaps all the Spam killing ideas of
late :-)?)
For discussing how to encourage, for instance multicast, growth in the NZ
market?

Have a clear purpose up front would help ensure that we are heading in the
right direction and help prevent it degenerating into a talkfest.

We sort out why we want this and we may find that a smaller quarterly or
biannual gathering is really more appropriate. Won't know until we know why
we want do this.

What y'all think?

Coming from a vendor this has been valued at only 3 cents (plus GST).

Regards
Kefyn JUDSON
Multiservice Network Architect
ERICSSON New Zealand
* Phone: +64 9 3555 461
* Mobile: +61 21 535 331
* E-mail: ***@ericsson.co.nz
* SMS: ***@vodafone.net.nz


-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Pemberton [mailto:***@flatnet.gen.nz]
Sent: Friday, 11 January 2002 11:00 AM
To: Roger De Salis
Cc: ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Subject: Re: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far

On Fri, Jan 11, 2002 at 10:22:20AM +1300, Roger De Salis
Post by Roger De Salis
1/ Organisation is pretty much a 12 month cycle (not to
say
Post by Roger De Salis
you can't do a smaller one in less time.)
Damn - my attention span has been clocked at under 10.7
seconds.

Seriously though. I don't doubt for a minute that this is a
long term
job, and as such needs the right sort of person to organise
it.
Post by Roger De Salis
2/ Guest overseas/celebrity speakers (from 1-3) usually
want business-class airfare plus free accomodation.
Greedy bastards.
S/t I think this could be relaxed. None of the companies
they work for
will be flying them business class at the moment so why
should we.
Post by Roger De Salis
3/ Organisors, who usually work for nothing, like have
their
Post by Roger De Salis
accomodation paid. (But this need not be the case)
One Maui Camper van comming up
S/t If you like the idea enough to volenteer to organise
it, then you
were probably going to come anyway. So then you would have
been paying
for your accomodation anyway. So no one should mind paying.
QED
Post by Roger De Salis
I believe most companies would stump up for this.
There are severe limitations in the number of
establishments
Post by Roger De Salis
that can deal with 50-150 people, and they typically want
12 month notice of bookings.
Yep - this I think will be an issue. We might want to look
into this as
a phase 1. it might effect some of the scaling decisions
that Donald is
talking about (single vs multiday, independant vs schlepping
off
uniforum)
Post by Roger De Salis
I'm sure Cisco, being the gorilla of the Internet industry
would be keen to participate, by providing an overseas
speaker, and other companies would no doubt contribute in
like fashion. The principle reason for finding a sponsor
is to stump up the hotel deposit.
One tShirt with a slow knuckle-dragging, hairy, drooling
gorilla named
Cisco comming up =)

S/t I don't think Speakers will be a huge problem. I think
that doing
them for cheap, and getting companies to just fork out
disposable cash
might be a bit harder. But who knows.
Post by Roger De Salis
I think the technical conference in NZ is a worthy one,
but
Post by Roger De Salis
I would put more emphasis on getting managers of Telco's
along, simply as it is an opportunity for them to
understand
Post by Roger De Salis
a little more of the technical side, and perhaps it is
also
Post by Roger De Salis
an opportunity for the techo's to understand the
management
Post by Roger De Salis
drivers.
<t-i-c>
Telco's are some of the most technical and intelligent
people that I
know. They have recently been shown to make EXCELLENT
networking
decisions. I think they would be a great asset to any
conference
audience.
</t-i-c>



Having said all this I guess the thing that I'm worried
about the most
is that we start too big and it tanks. We are then left
with the "Nah,
we tried that once but it didn't work"


All good points man. Esp the ones about how expensive and
time
consuming the organising is.


Dean
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Nathan Ward
2002-01-11 01:19:18 UTC
Permalink
Should this go ahead,
nz2600 (www.2600.org.nz) will definitely do some security related talks.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@list.waikato.ac.nz
[mailto:owner-***@list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Donald Neal
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:56 AM
To: ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Subject: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far

NZNOG People,

I have been very surprised by the feedback I've received to the
suggestion of a face to face conference this year.

Potential attendees: 6
Offers to provide speaker(s): 3
Offer to help organise speakers: 1
Offer to help organise: 1
Offer of venue: 1

This is a very impressive level of willingness to do the things that
need doing. Not so flash on the audience front, though. Could anyone
else who'd consider attending please advise me in the not too distant
future, preferably including any preferences on date and/or location.

I haven't yet replied to any of those who've offered to help. I hope to
do so early next week.

- Donald Neal



--
Donald Neal
Special Operations
Network Delivery
Telecom New Zealand Ltd

------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
"This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you
are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact
me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this
communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you."


========================================================================
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Nathan Ward
2002-01-11 01:20:33 UTC
Permalink
Should this go ahead,
nz2600 (www.2600.org.nz) will definitely do some security related talks.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-***@list.waikato.ac.nz
[mailto:owner-***@list.waikato.ac.nz] On Behalf Of Donald Neal
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 9:56 AM
To: ***@list.waikato.ac.nz
Subject: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far

NZNOG People,

I have been very surprised by the feedback I've received to the
suggestion of a face to face conference this year.

Potential attendees: 6
Offers to provide speaker(s): 3
Offer to help organise speakers: 1
Offer to help organise: 1
Offer of venue: 1

This is a very impressive level of willingness to do the things that
need doing. Not so flash on the audience front, though. Could anyone
else who'd consider attending please advise me in the not too distant
future, preferably including any preferences on date and/or location.

I haven't yet replied to any of those who've offered to help. I hope to
do so early next week.

- Donald Neal



--
Donald Neal
Special Operations
Network Delivery
Telecom New Zealand Ltd

------------------------------------------------------------------------
------
"This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you
are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact
me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this
communication or disclose anything about it. Thank you."


========================================================================
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Nicholas Lee
2002-01-12 01:01:41 UTC
Permalink
Might be interesting. Depending on location and content.

Auckland is probably the best. Easier (*) for flying options than
Hamilton, yet its easy to travel to Auckland from Hamilton. So that
probably covers 60% of the people likely to attend.

(*) No $99 one way tickets from Christchurch to Hamilton from the major
carriers.

I think joining it to another show/conference is probably easy up front.

Probably good idea to keep it small the first time around, don't bite
off to much.


Even consider say tacking it on to one of the Tech Pacific Road Shows or
similar. Almost vendor neutral, easy venue, likely audience is increased
10 fold.


Again it all depends on the target content/audience.
--
Nicholas Lee - nj.lee at plumtree.co dot nz, somewhere on the fish Maui caught.
gpg. 8072 4F86 EDCD 4FC1 18EF 5BDD 07B0 9597 6D58 D70C icq. 1612865

Quixotic Eccentricity
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Donald Neal
2002-01-13 20:24:16 UTC
Permalink
[...]
Post by Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
What is the point of us getting together? I'm not knocking it here,
but if
Post by Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
we can identify our reasons for getting together we should be able to
identify which setup would work for us.
Is it for networking?
For chewing over a specific issue?
For hands on workshopping something (perhaps all the Spam killing
ideas of
Post by Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
late :-)?)
For discussing how to encourage, for instance multicast, growth in the
NZ
Post by Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
market?
Have a clear purpose up front would help ensure that we are heading in
the
Post by Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
right direction and help prevent it degenerating into a talkfest.
There's been little feedback so far on this. My own guess is that that
is because there is not just a single reason why people go to
conferences. Partly, it's to learn things from the formal programme.
Partly, it's to learn things informally. Vendors will be there in part
to promote their brand and quitew possible to sell specific products or
services. Potential buyers may actually want to know about specific
prodiucts or services. Some attendees will be there in part simply to
meet people whom its valuable in different ways to know.

And not everyone is expected to be interested in every subject
discussed, either.

If not stopped, I'll proceed on the assumption that we can plan to do
something without seeking a unifying reason for it. However, if people
who would attend in the right circumstances do have goals they think we
should be aiming to achieve, now's the time to speak up.

- Donald Neal

--
Donald Neal
Special Operations
Network Delivery
Telecom New Zealand Ltd

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Andy Linton
2002-01-13 21:01:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Donald Neal
If not stopped, I'll proceed on the assumption that we can plan to do
something without seeking a unifying reason for it. However, if people
who would attend in the right circumstances do have goals they think we
should be aiming to achieve, now's the time to speak up.
I think you need to have some goal here. I'd be interested in this meeting
IFF it's technical - if we get marketing and sales types there I won't be
nearly as interested (possibly one of the understatements of 2002).

Perhaps it would be useful to revisit out terms of reference - see below.
I'm sure Donald will be keeping these points in mind but I'd like others
to consider them too. I'd suggest that some form of program committee need
to be consituted - this event need to be content driven not event driven.
Let's think about organising the event when we have something that looks
like a program that people want to see/hear.

The program committee could be the list if we want to keep the process
informal for now. If someone thinks they have something that people might
want to hear about post a short description and see who shows some
interest.

The beer item on the proposed agenda will take of itself once we have the
rest of the schedule sorted - it goes at the end of the formal
proceedings.

---

NZNOG Mailing List Acceptable Use Policy

The NZNOG mailing list exists to provide a forum for the exchange of
technical information and the discussion of implementation issues that
require cooperation among New Zealand network service providers. In
order to continue to provide a useful forum for discussion of relevant
technical issues, users of the list are asked to respect the
following
guidelines.

1. Discussion will focus on Internet operational and technical issues.
2. Discussion related to meetings of network service providers is
appropriate.
3. Discussion unrelated to these topics is not appropriate.

6. Blatant product or service marketing is unacceptable.
7. Postings of a political, philosophical or legal nature are
discouraged.


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Dean Pemberton
2002-01-13 23:10:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Linton
I think you need to have some goal here. I'd be interested in this meeting
IFF it's technical - if we get marketing and sales types there I won't be
nearly as interested (possibly one of the understatements of 2002).
Perhaps it would be useful to revisit out terms of reference - see below.
I'm sure Donald will be keeping these points in mind but I'd like others
to consider them too. I'd suggest that some form of program committee need
to be consituted - this event need to be content driven not event driven.
Let's think about organising the event when we have something that looks
like a program that people want to see/hear.
I think that it would also be useful to look at the niche we fill in the
industry.

For example. We don't want to have content that fits into the
Governance or Legislative domain because thats for ISOCNZ. We also
might want to stay away from the wider Open Systems issues, because
thats for Uniforum to address.

This list is for Technical Network issues only.

So things that I would not be happy to see in an NZNOG conference.

. "A detailed look at the politics of neutral peering"
. "Security issues of your favorite Linux distro"
. "Domainz" (I'm going to get flamed on this one. but I don't think
that there are any TECHNICAL issues that need to be discussed.)

Things that I think are slightly more appropriate.

. "An explanation of how new net technology X could be deployed in NZ"
. "Detailed look at protocol X"
. "Hands on workshop to install and demonstrate X."


You get my point. We are a technical list, it should be a technical
conference.

Dean

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Donald Neal
2002-01-13 23:07:02 UTC
Permalink
--
Donald Neal
Special Operations
Network Delivery
Telecom New Zealand Ltd
Post by Andy Linton
Post by Donald Neal
If not stopped, I'll proceed on the assumption that we can plan to
do
Post by Andy Linton
Post by Donald Neal
something without seeking a unifying reason for it. However, if
people
Post by Andy Linton
Post by Donald Neal
who would attend in the right circumstances do have goals they think
we
Post by Andy Linton
Post by Donald Neal
should be aiming to achieve, now's the time to speak up.
Perhaps it would be useful to revisit out terms of reference - see
below.
Post by Andy Linton
I'm sure Donald will be keeping these points in mind but I'd like
others
Post by Andy Linton
to consider them too. I'd suggest that some form of program committee
need
Post by Andy Linton
to be consituted - this event need to be content driven not event
driven.
Post by Andy Linton
Let's think about organising the event when we have something that
looks
Post by Andy Linton
like a program that people want to see/hear.
The program committee could be the list if we want to keep the process
informal for now. If someone thinks they have something that people
might
Post by Andy Linton
want to hear about post a short description and see who shows some
interest.
I want to keep open - _if people are interested_ - the option of doing
things which
would not be appropriate for the mailing list. Most obviously,
tutorials at a level too
introductory for the content to belong here. Whether that's "What is
BGP and why is it not used in Chinese cooking?" or whatever.

I'm not sure that the format follows the programme. For one thing, we
do have the option of bringing in an international speaker of some
stature, but doing that would have an effect on the cost. We have had
nine offers so far to be or provide speakers. I believe that what we do
about that number depends on the format chosen - one day one stream will
not allow that many. (That's one reason I haven't yet got back to those
people.) Choosing a more ambitious style of event allows (requires?) us
more actively to solicit contributions. So decisions about the format
may well drive decisions about the content.

More complex still, the decision about whether to run a demo network
or how large it should be is both a format and a content decision. It
has a lot to do with venue, too.

So far, what feedback to the list there has been on format suggests
that we're looking for a two-day residential event. If that is some sort
of consensus, then I agree that it's time to think about content, but
I'd like a more general organising group rather than merely a program
committee, since decisions do need to be made about things like the
venue and the price. Right now, I'd like more feedback to allow us to
judge whether that is indeed a consensus view.

See also
Loading Image...
.

- Donald Neal


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Andy Linton
2002-01-14 00:44:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Donald Neal
I want to keep open - _if people are interested_ - the option of doing
things which would not be appropriate for the mailing list. Most
obviously, tutorials at a level too introductory for the content to
belong here. Whether that's "What is BGP and why is it not used in
Chinese cooking?" or whatever.
All I'm suggesting is that before you do the Field of Dreams thing is get
some sort of agenda together and float it past this list. If you organise
a conference (and I'd really rather it was a meeting) called the NZNOG
'thingy', book a venue, get the catering arranged, arrange a conference
dinner and then hope to get a good tecnical program, you may find that
"they don't come". The idea of an NZNOG face to face in itself isn't worth
pursuing unless there's a strong technical program that's worth organising
it for.
Post by Donald Neal
I'm not sure that the format follows the programme. For one thing, we
do have the option of bringing in an international speaker of some
stature, but doing that would have an effect on the cost. We have had
Do we 'need' to bring in an international speaker and put up the cost?
Will an overseas speaker be able to talk specifics about the issues facing
NZ operators?
Post by Donald Neal
nine offers so far to be or provide speakers. I believe that what we do
about that number depends on the format chosen - one day one stream will
not allow that many. (That's one reason I haven't yet got back to those
people.) Choosing a more ambitious style of event allows (requires?) us
more actively to solicit contributions. So decisions about the format
may well drive decisions about the content.
I've offered to speak. I'll give up some of my time to contribute to the
success of the venture but I really want there to be a quality agenda
first and foremost to make it worth my while turning up.
Post by Donald Neal
More complex still, the decision about whether to run a demo network
or how large it should be is both a format and a content decision. It
has a lot to do with venue, too.
I don't see how with the very limited resources NZNOG has available you
build a network that's useful for demo purposes. The meeting needs an
operational wireless network that attendees can use to send/recv email.
There's an opportunity for a vendor of radio kit here to be on hand with a
box of PC cards and a credit card zapper offering a 'rent to buy' option
on the cards.
Post by Donald Neal
So far, what feedback to the list there has been on format suggests
that we're looking for a two-day residential event. If that is some sort
of consensus, then I agree that it's time to think about content, but
I'd like a more general organising group rather than merely a program
committee, since decisions do need to be made about things like the
venue and the price. Right now, I'd like more feedback to allow us to
judge whether that is indeed a consensus view.
Well if that's the consensus view that what we want is a two-day
residential event and given Roger de Salis's insights into organising
something of this scale for Uniforum then we'll be lucky to get it running
until the end of the year.

If that's the case why don't we all agree to go to the Uniforum conference
in July - they've already done the work setting all that up. If enough of
us agree to go, we can arrange with them to provide a separate room to run
a Network stream in and piggy back on everything they've already
organised. That way we get to focus on content.

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Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
2002-01-14 02:54:34 UTC
Permalink
Dean, you're a trainer.

How about you do an "Ipv6 and its implications on NZ Nets" or the like!

Regards
Kefyn JUDSON
Multiservice Network Architect
ERICSSON New Zealand
* Phone: +64 9 3555 461
* Mobile: +61 21 535 331
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-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Pemberton [mailto:***@flatnet.gen.nz]
Sent: Monday, 14 January 2002 12:10 PM
To: Andy Linton
Cc: NZNOG List
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
Post by Andy Linton
I think you need to have some goal here. I'd be interested
in this meeting
Post by Andy Linton
IFF it's technical - if we get marketing and sales types
there I won't be
Post by Andy Linton
nearly as interested (possibly one of the understatements
of 2002).
Post by Andy Linton
Perhaps it would be useful to revisit out terms of
reference - see below.
Post by Andy Linton
I'm sure Donald will be keeping these points in mind but
I'd like others
Post by Andy Linton
to consider them too. I'd suggest that some form of
program committee need
Post by Andy Linton
to be consituted - this event need to be content driven
not event driven.
Post by Andy Linton
Let's think about organising the event when we have
something that looks
Post by Andy Linton
like a program that people want to see/hear.
I think that it would also be useful to look at the niche we
fill in the
industry.

For example. We don't want to have content that fits into
the
Governance or Legislative domain because thats for ISOCNZ.
We also
might want to stay away from the wider Open Systems issues,
because
thats for Uniforum to address.

This list is for Technical Network issues only.

So things that I would not be happy to see in an NZNOG
conference.

. "A detailed look at the politics of neutral peering"
. "Security issues of your favorite Linux distro"
. "Domainz" (I'm going to get flamed on this one. but
I don't think
that there are any TECHNICAL issues that need to be
discussed.)

Things that I think are slightly more appropriate.

. "An explanation of how new net technology X could be
deployed in NZ"
. "Detailed look at protocol X"
. "Hands on workshop to install and demonstrate X."


You get my point. We are a technical list, it should be a
technical
conference.

Dean

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Dean Pemberton
2002-01-14 02:57:49 UTC
Permalink
V6 is on the list. It doesn't matter who does it. I'm happy to if no
one else wants to, or if there is nothing else that people would rather
that I do.

Dean
Post by Kefyn Judson (ENZ)
Dean, you're a trainer.
How about you do an "Ipv6 and its implications on NZ Nets" or the like!
Regards
Kefyn JUDSON
Multiservice Network Architect
ERICSSON New Zealand
* Phone: +64 9 3555 461
* Mobile: +61 21 535 331
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, 14 January 2002 12:10 PM
To: Andy Linton
Cc: NZNOG List
Subject: RE: NZNOG Conference 2002: Feedback So Far
Post by Andy Linton
I think you need to have some goal here. I'd be interested
in this meeting
Post by Andy Linton
IFF it's technical - if we get marketing and sales types
there I won't be
Post by Andy Linton
nearly as interested (possibly one of the understatements
of 2002).
Post by Andy Linton
Perhaps it would be useful to revisit out terms of
reference - see below.
Post by Andy Linton
I'm sure Donald will be keeping these points in mind but
I'd like others
Post by Andy Linton
to consider them too. I'd suggest that some form of
program committee need
Post by Andy Linton
to be consituted - this event need to be content driven
not event driven.
Post by Andy Linton
Let's think about organising the event when we have
something that looks
Post by Andy Linton
like a program that people want to see/hear.
I think that it would also be useful to look at the niche we
fill in the
industry.
For example. We don't want to have content that fits into
the
Governance or Legislative domain because thats for ISOCNZ.
We also
might want to stay away from the wider Open Systems issues,
because
thats for Uniforum to address.
This list is for Technical Network issues only.
So things that I would not be happy to see in an NZNOG
conference.
. "A detailed look at the politics of neutral peering"
. "Security issues of your favorite Linux distro"
. "Domainz" (I'm going to get flamed on this one. but
I don't think
that there are any TECHNICAL issues that need to be
discussed.)
Things that I think are slightly more appropriate.
. "An explanation of how new net technology X could be
deployed in NZ"
. "Detailed look at protocol X"
. "Hands on workshop to install and demonstrate X."
You get my point. We are a technical list, it should be a
technical
conference.
Dean
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Don Stokes
2002-01-14 03:44:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Linton
I think you need to have some goal here. I'd be interested in this meeting
IFF it's technical - if we get marketing and sales types there I won't be
nearly as interested (possibly one of the understatements of 2002).
One of the problems here is that conference organisers have to take
what they can get, within reason. Obviously, you can influence this by
specifying a theme in the call for papers, but if you ask for papers on
gonkulators, and no-one wants to present about gonkulators, you don't
have a programme.
Post by Andy Linton
The program committee could be the list if we want to keep the process
informal for now. If someone thinks they have something that people might
want to hear about post a short description and see who shows some
interest.
I dimly recall pretty much single-handedly organising the programme (and
quite a lot else besides) for the 1992 DECUS Forum -- this was a three
day event with three streams, and about 120 attendees. The programme
organisation fell to me because I had time, and because the programme
subcommittee (which I wasn't even on) had failed to confirm any papers
by the time the draft programme had to be published. I begged for extra
time and spent two days on the phone chasing up contributions and a
third getting the progress report and draft programme written up.

The lesson was that someone has to be responsible for the programme, and
that someone has to be in a position to deliver -- volunteers are
helpful, but if you want the thing done, someone needs to take charge.
No, I'm not volunteering...

The DECUS Forum was the smaller, more technically focused event that
DECUS ran each year (there was a larger Conference) and was always held
in February so that we could use University facilities and halls of
residence. That kept the costs down to manageable proportions so that
techies could attend regularly. Is that a factor worth keeping in mind
for an NZNOG gathering?

Oh, and I'll put in a vote for either Wellington or Hamilton, for purely
self-centred reasons. 8-)

-- don
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Martin D Kealey
2002-01-16 06:02:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Andy Linton
Well if that's the consensus view that what we want is a two-day
residential event and given Roger de Salis's insights into organising
something of this scale for Uniforum then we'll be lucky to get it running
until the end of the year.
If that's the case why don't we all agree to go to the Uniforum conference
in July - they've already done the work setting all that up. If enough of
us agree to go, we can arrange with them to provide a separate room to run
a Network stream in and piggy back on everything they've already
organised. That way we get to focus on content.
Done: NZNOG booked for Room 3 for Thursday 11th and Friday 12th July.

Let me know if you want an additional room, or more time.

Location will be in Mangere, Auckland -- but I can't tell you which of the
two hotels just yet as I'm still negotiating with them.

-Martin
--
"War against Terror" is an oxymoron


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